Six Smart Women Discussing Doctor Who

VerityEpisode6It’s official! We have finally made our way back to the classic series. This week Deb, Erika, Liz, and Lynne discuss the virtues (and possible lack thereof–though not according to Liz) of The Curse of Fenric. It’s new to Deb, it might as well be new to Erika, and it’s clear Liz and Lynne have seen it a few times.  Just a few…


Also covered:
Ice Warriors!
Doctor Who 50th Celebration, ExCeL London!
Calgary Expo!
Long Island Doctor Who!

Download or listen now (runtime 1:13:17) 

Comments on: "Verity! Episode 6 – All Seven and We Watch Ace Fall" (25)

  1. Thanks for encouraging Liz to hold back on the piercing interjections. I know how it is to be so enthusiastic that you can’t wait to interject your opinion, but the judgy shriekiness in the first episode was very offputting. I love to hear what she thinks, but thanks for letting the others have their say without repeatedly cutting them off.

    Love yr show and the ongoing chance to hear from more women in the community.

    • Thank God you said that. I was on the verge of stopping listening because she was shouting over the top of everyone else and slamming their opinions down with “You’re wrong”. I agree it can be so difficult when you are enthusiastic and you really want to get your opinions over but you have to let others have their say…

      Great podcast again. The female fan perspective continues to be fascinating 🙂

      • Felicity K said:

        I also find it very difficult to listen to Liz constantly interrupting and telling others their opinion is wrong. Much of her commentary on “Curse of Fenric” was thought-provoking and encouraged me to take a second look (like Erica, my opinion of this story and the McCoy era as a whole has always been “meh”), but the disrespectful behavior is putting me off. Even if it is completely well-intentioned and doesn’t bother the other participants at all, it bothers this listener very much.

    • mike mazurek said:

      What? Liz is great! I love her enthusiasm. I find “round table” discussions boring. Her enthusiasm subverts the “now everyone must take their turn” dictum and it becomes a roiling conversation.And I like that!

    • I’ve got to agree with Mike. Liz is marvelous. I was interested with the whole concept of an all-female podcast however without Liz it is in REAL danger of being a stereotypical “we heart the dr and rose and anyother dr/companion relationship has to be like that to make my heart a-flutter” 1 hour no-discussion.
      I thought it was understood that not all women have to be ‘sugar and spice and all things nice’ and i’m ok with Liz being confrontational, interupting, passionate about things non-romance related etc
      In defence of liz saying ‘you’re wrong’ – when she is allowed to continue she always explains why – and she also forces the person challenged to back up her assertion. That is a Good Thing.
      One thing that really annoys me about the podcast though is that it uses the whole – “her opinion is valid because it’s her opinion”. Not true – stupid, uninformed opinions are never valid. Back it up with something other than emotion or gtfo.

      • Felicity K said:

        I think you’ll find both Erica and Katrina are very much anti-romance. The panelists are not nearly as monolithic as you make out.

      • I agree with Felicity. The panel is clearly not “all for romance” which does make for good debate. John says that the thing that annoys him about the podcast is that it uses the whole “her opinion is valid because it’s her opinion”. That’s exactly what Liz does. She even says in this episode that it’s a “great argument” when it clearly isn’t. I’ve been doing a group podcast for six years now and we interrupt each other all the time, however we never say that anyone else’s opinion is wrong just because. We have to give reasons and accept the fact that not everyone will agree.

        Liz’s opinions are interesting and valid too – but she bulldozes over the top of others when they’re talking. As a listener this doesn’t make things exciting, it makes them incomprehensible. It can’t only be me who noticed a decidedly chilly atmosphere on occasion in this podcast when the others weren’t allowed to have their say uninterrupted…?

      • As a second generation expatriate New Yorker I am fluent in the interweaving dance of conversational style that many people consider to be rude and interrupting, but that I grew up accepting as normal back and forth. I think it’s not so much the interjections that bother me as their piercing pitch, which tends to climb with the vehemence of opinion. Maybe bringing it down a couple of octaves would make these very interesting exchanges more listenable. I know this may open up another realm of analysis of women not being taken seriously because of our outward attributes, such as voice, but I hope this can be taken on the spirit of constructive criticism.

      • mekster said:

        I like Liz’s views on the show. They’re often similar to mine. I am thinking of stopping listening though. Not allowing someone to finish their point and just shouting over them is becoming more and more irritating. As for her being given the chance to back up ‘You’re wrong’ maybe she could allow the other presenters the chance to explain their thoughts first. Her opinion is no more or less valid than anyone else’s. I like to hear my favourite show discussed. Not one person dominating and cutting the flow of that discussion.

  2. Ray Adamson said:

    Nobody here yet?Right.OK.I have to commend everybody for avoiding picking a McCoy story which does not include jazz performances or spoon playing.As much of the content of your new podcast demonstrated there is plenty of evangelical preaching that McCoy era Who was substantial and effective and i appreciate a lot of it.My favourite Mc Coy stories were The Greatest Show in the Galaxy,The Happiness Patrol and Ghost Light but i’m afraid i have to declare that i belong in the same camp as Erika and Warren because i have problems with the majority of it.The Cartmel masterplan couldn,t right all my wrongs with it.The increased emphasis on the development of Ace was actually detrimental to the programme for me and presenting a companion as being capable and independent by being destructive and aggressive is something i can’t get on board with.Sure, she is absolutely an improvement on Melanie Bush but the whole idea was fatally compromised by her unbelievable introduction in Dragonfire which always ensured that i never found the character as relatable and believable as she was intended to be.I actually like McCoy’s interpretation of The Doctor though,he had some gravitas and was comedic and physically not intimidating which are all appropriate.He also has a good rapport with Sophie which is very enjoyable to watch.Ultimately these things can’t compensate for production values which did not really do justice to the stories overall.There are actually people involved in the production of McCoy,s stories who are doing great work on the programme now though.I went to the convention in Cardiff and the guy who made the Handbots in the Girl who Waited also worked on the Candyman in The Happiness Patrol.So,there’s an example of some redemption.Mc Coy era Who is also Tom MacRae’s favourite.Not to my taste ,i,m afraid and i sort of regret that since many people get a lot of pleasure from it.

    • Ray Adamson said:

      Since i am also Scottish,i can sympathise with L.M about being too enthusiastic about expressing her opinions considering generations of Scots are used to their opinions about who their prime minister should be counting for nothing.Also you can’t fail to admire her respect for the Gell Guards considering poor James Acheson is still v.embarrassed about them.Erika ….Nyssa??[Imagines Nyssa of Traken rocking to punk pop tunes and garage bands.]Obviously a Tesh tribal thing!

  3. Chris (@Silver_Nemesis) said:

    I love the McCoy era as that is the one that was the on TV when I first started watching “live” (I had watched my mum’s VHS copies of T.Baker, Pertwee and Davison from birth before that). As such I absolutely adored Ace.

    I could never ship a romantic relationship between them. I think part of that is the age I first watched them would make it impossible but I also genuinely believe it doesn’t exist.

    I also loved the dark and manipulative nature of the later 7th Doctor – it made him look so much above and beyond any character I’d watched on TV at that point. It’s still one of the aspects of all the Doctors that I most enjoy, even though it only appears as glimpses in some.

    (Three paragraphs beginning with “I” – makes me seem rather egotistical)

    When Curse of Fenric first aired I was 8 and did actually find it quite scary, especially when the haemovores first came out of the water. They’re one of only 3 things to ever scare me in Who, the Malice in The Awakening being the first and the freaky kid in Rememberance of the Daleks being the other.

    I still love going back to Curse of Fenric now just to watch the criminally under-appreciated Nicholas Parsons. Rvnd Wainwright was an important character in setting the scene and getting us to understand the role faith plays. Without him the central plot looks a lot looser and the story would suffer without him. He was played perfectly and his reading from Corinthians sticks with me. One of the few defences of stunt casting.

    Finishing with Liz’s interjections, I can listen to those all day long 😉 Although to be fair opinions are not fact. So whilst it’s technically wrong to state that the 7th Doctor era is rubbish, people are entitled to think it.

  4. AbsolomDaak said:

    I loved curse of fenric, it is one of the best episodes that was done for the McCoy era.
    though I have to say that the novalization of the story was even better. I was wondering did any of you who have seen the episode; have you read the novalization of the story? none of you made any comments on it so I wanted to ask. Mainly because in the story Sorin mentions why he was picked for the mission. That his Grandmother was English. Which at the end of the book you find out that it is Ace who is supposed to be his grandmother, Who is touched by the curse. Which is also supposed to connect to another episode where Ace sees a old painting of someone that looks like her, who is her. located in Windsor Castle seen in Silver Nemesis.

  5. Another great episode, although I wish you chose a much better story to represent the 7th Doctor’s era. Either Remembrance or Greatest Show in the Galaxy. I find Fenric to be a train wreck of missed opportunities and really bad acting.

    Overall, Verity is a “must listen” podcast, due to the good mix of personalities and differing opinions. Keep up the great work.

  6. I acknowledge and appreciate that you have 6 more shows left until you complete all 11 dr’s, but when you finish them could you do a show where you all have to choose which companion you identify with the most and then choose who eachother reminds you of? Maybe which story epitomises your personality. I think only an all-female podcast can do this well.
    My choices….
    Liz = Ace
    Lynne = Victoria
    Deborah = Romana 1
    Erika = Martha

    • That’s interesting, but I’ve never liked Martha much. The fact that she pined so for the Doctor was very offputting to me. Remember, I do not care overly much for romance in the TARDIS! And while I don’t dislike her, I never found much to like about her. Donna is really the only new-Who companion I really truly like.

      As for a companion I identify with, I’m Nyssa all the way. (Though I’d rather be Romana 1. 🙂 )


  7. The Happiness Patrol would certainly be my pick for representative McCoy – it retains some of the campiness from Season 24 with the Kandyman and The Patrol itself, but the nature of the society is very dark – as demonstrated perfectly by Helen A’s character. It also gives some hints of McCoy’s manipulative side, but not as much as stories like Ghost Light or Fenric.

  8. Felicity K said:

    I apologize for spelling Erika’s name wrong in my two previous comments. FWIW I totally agree with you about “Curse of Fenric”.

  9. Brian said:

    This later MCoy stories are so pertentious. Cartmel trying to show us all how deep he is. Rather than subjecting us to his “masterplan” He should have just given us some good stories, where the doctor is not a dark god.

    • I would argue that RTD did worse with the whole Doctor/God thing. That got so heavy-handed it was cringeworthy.

      • Brian said:

        But it started with Mccoy, then it continued in the new adventues. Whic infulenced the new series.

  10. I agree that it was started in the McCoy era but really, apart from a few fairly oblique references, it certainly wasn’t as all-pervasive and brick-through-a-window subtle as it became in the Tennant era.

    I have to admit, I can’t see how the New Adventures influenced new Doctor Who, unless you mean that the standard of writing was all over the place and they needed someone stronger in charge to stop them going over the top 🙂

  11. – Super stoked for the Ice Warriors to return
    – Love Ace
    – Enjoy differing opinions at all volumes
    – Am STILL humming “The Telephone Hour” to myself from Bye Bye Birdie. I’m sure my coworkers are delighted.

  12. While Curse of Fenric is my favourite McCoy era serial, I think Happiness Patrol is arguably more representative. And also vastly underrated.

  13. […] we’re calling your attention to the last podcast in that series…all the way back to Episode Six: All Seven and We Watch Ace Fall!  Below are links to related works for that episode.  You will find links to things such as […]

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