Six Smart Women Discussing Doctor Who

VerityEpisode15-300

And that’s a wrap for series 7. Join Deb, Erika, Liz, and Lynne as we discuss whether the season closer was everything we hoped it could be or left us feeling slightly uncomfortable. Were the fans properly serviced? Was the last climax really a climax? Was the “reward” video of Matt Smith and David Tennant really much of a reward? We cover all this and more.

^E

Also covered:
Series 8 is a thing! And Matt Smith will be in it!
All the Doctor Who DVDs!
Daemons action figure set available for pre-order!
Hello Sweetie Podcast!

DownloadΒ or listen nowΒ (runtime 1:05:59)Β 

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Comments on: "Verity! Episode 15 – The Name of the Episode" (18)

  1. I also wanted Clara’s sacrifice to mean something more. (Though the episode ends before they are out of danger.) If Clara actually died saving The Doctor that would definitely be dark, and different. It’d also make “Run you Clever Boy, and Remember” a lot more significant!
    The dynamic at the end of the episode reminded me of Parting of the Ways: companion saves the Doctor, Doctor saves the companion in turn. Except in the first series, there were more serious repercussions – Nine regenerated into Ten. I’m hoping something will happen in the 50th, except with both Jenna and Matt signed on for series 8, I know it won’t happen.

    • While I did sort of yearn for a darker ending there, I don’t think that would have meant Clara’s sacrifice would have *meant* more. Her sacrifice still stands–she thought she was going to die, utterly. So even though the repercussions weren’t what she was expecting, I think it’s just as valid a sacrifice from a character perspective. Storytelling-wise, yeah, it’s a little fluffy, but this is a family show after all. I tend to forget that sometimes. πŸ™‚

      • Maybe I’m just evil then. Thinking of the guilt that would be on the Doctor’s hands – though for once he wouldn’t have caused her death, but he’d owe his life to her and wouldn’t be able to pay it back.

        I’m in the States and for the last two series I’ve been reading so much more darkness. Didn’t pick up near as much when RTD was running things, perhaps because he had a spin off that was post-watershed.
        (Also Character vs Storytelling – we just wandered into Watson/Doyle didn’t we πŸ˜‰ )

      • Nah, you’re not evil–you just like the same kinds of stories I do. πŸ™‚ Then again, I wouldn’t mind a return to the slightly more happy-go-lucky Doctor we usually had in the classic series. Maybe we’ll get that in Series 8.

  2. Elvis Omar said:

    Thank you all once again for voicing some of my own thoughts. I loved this season ender, for many of the same reasons I heard you all talk about. Personally, I wouldn’t have wanted to see anyone in this episode die permanently, but I agree the sense of peril is getting a bit lost this season.

    Regarding the flash-back stuff, I was such a grinning fanboy about all of that. And I’m quite certain that ‘our’ TARDIS let Clara know somehow which the Doctor should choose from the repair bay. I’m not sure we will ever see a reason the TARDIS didn’t like Clara earlier on, though. From a Doylian perspective (Useful terms! Thanks Deb!) I tend to believe that Moffat does some stuff with careful planning in the brain, and others by the seat of his pants. Perhaps the animosity of the TARDIS is from his bottom, not his top?

    Thanks especially for the meta-discussion. I love stories as a way for people to live on. If such a thing were possible, I can only imagine Ms. Lambert listening to this episode of the podcast grinning from ear to ear (and possibly blushing as brightly as can be).

    I’m not afraid of spoilers, and would very much like to know where I can read about the John Hurt theory referenced near the end of the podcast.

    • I love your theory of Moffat’s creativity–bottom vs top. πŸ™‚

      As for the John Hurt theory, I forgot to ask Lynne what it was before we logged off! Perhaps she’ll see this and respond. If you’re on twitter, your best bet would be to tweet her about it. She’s vigilant about checking tweets. If I find out, I’ll surely let you know–

      WITH A LINK ONLY. Don’t want to spoil other comment-readers, so if anyone else knows theories, please, LINKS ONLY. (Spoliery comments may be deleted.)

  3. Joris M said:

    The emotional manipulation worked perfectly on me. Being able to ignore the inevitable escapes and enjoy the moment. I felt with Vastra, with the choice of Clara, etc.

    The whole scene to me does not only resonate with Rose, or Donna, but also with a reverse Amy – with this time the Doctor needing to remember a companion to safe her and bring her back (hopefully) rather than the other way around.

    Clara in the timestream could work in many different ways, perhaps in all of them, I don’t want to pin myself down on that, yet.

    I loved the River scenes. An interesting possible complication is that the Doctor said he could see her “all the time” (or similar words). Which perhaps, or potentially, implies that he saw River around for most of 7b. Which in combination with some of the weird/pained looks of the Doctor might give a whole new level to his pain and mood.

    • Interesting observation about “reverse Amy”! I did wonder what the Doctor meant by his line about seeing River. Could he have an “open line” to her all the time that she just doesn’t know about? Or could the TARDIS (through which he can keep an eye on River)? You’re right–that would require reevaluating more than just this episode like I mentioned.

      • Joris M said:

        Of course the beauty is that it need not be true, but can still be true for me.

        ouch, I got infected fast. I blame (or should thank) Tansy and the Galactic Suburbia podcast for getting me to watch.

      • True! I love how Who is just an open-ended show in so many ways. There are as many ways to watch and interpret as there are fans watching!

        And yes, sounds like Tansy & GS deserve some blame! πŸ™‚ Or thanks. Or both! πŸ˜€

  4. I was another giddy, grinning fan for all those flashbacks. I could watch the pre-credits sequence over and over. Even my kids got worked up, and they’re only 4 (I was a bit proud about that, I confess.) “Momma! Look, it’s the First Doctor! The Second Doctor!! Look look!!!”

    I agree on the seeming lack of real fear about losing characters, as they keep being resurrected, or just not dead. Not that I’m jonesing for anyone to be killed off, but it takes away from some of the feeling of danger. I’m sure Moffat’s just saving it, and will rip all our hearts out at once some time in the future, and then we’ll look fondly back on the days where nobody really died…

    I’m currently subscribed to what seems to be one of the most common fan-theories on Hurt, as written about on Doctor Who TV:
    http://tinyurl.com/oxeqjgt

    And Kasterborous has (as usual) some good speculation as well, for anyone who hasn’t seen them yet:
    http://www.kasterborous.com/2013/05/which-doctor-is-john-hurt/

    • Now that is some spectacular parenting right there. Well done!

      I’m not sure you’re right about Moffat saving it up. My guess is that he’ll stay fairly true to form throughout, but how neat would it be if he didn’t? Either way, I cannot wait to watch and see!

      And thanks for the links!

      • My prediction re: Moffat saving it up is really based on my own paranoia (some sort of Joss-effect? who knows) rather than any sort of logic. It’s probably unlikely that he’ll write an episode where everyone I love will go down in a tragic blaze of glory. But I’m going to be prepared, just in case. πŸ˜›

      • Wise. Very wise. πŸ™‚

  5. Ray Adamson said:

    Dear me…Steven Moffats’ sunny Scottish disposition has beamed through this series as we were treated to Amy and Rory’s graves,the Doctors’ tomb and the planet his TARDIS never leaves,in one year.Writing Situation comedy and being answerable to BBC executives and Doctor Who fans seems to be affecting the poor man.I hope Mr Moffat enjoyed some solace and indeed a couple of beers when he visited the Way Station bar in Brooklyn with Matt Smith and watched their labours with fans on the night of transmission.Hopefully, any Sontarans would still be in Scotland fighting so everybody could enjoy Doctor Who together.Greatly impressed by mighty Matt Smiths’ realisation and delivery of Moffats’ work in ‘The Name Of The Doctor’.He really killed it,especially when Clara told him he had to go to Trenzalore and kiss the spectre of River Song.Brilliant,brilliant acting.I hope we’re not finished with River as her relationship with the Doctor seems to get bigger and more romantic and fascinating all the time.I was pretty entranced with the idea of her spectre trying to save the Doctor from the Great Intelligence’s attack in his final resting place.How weird is the relationship between River Song and the TARDIS?Actually concieved in it,it’s been demonstrated already that they have a psychic connection and now on Trenzalore,her grave is a secret passage leading to the dead TARDIS she was born in,in it’s future.I would hope Moffat might be tempted to use the storyline of River being stolen from her parents and made to kill the man she loves as an excuse to create more background for the relationship between the Silence,Madame Kovarian and The Doctor and some kind of moral resolution with River revenging herself for the childhood with her parents she was deprived of.I still feel thats’ still important even though Amy and Rory are gone now.The Whispermen reminded me of alien undertakers who could stop hearts more than Buffy monsters.It was unusually incompetent of Jenny not to lock the doors since she glimpsed them before the conference call but it would have been so severe to kill her for the mistake.Moffats’ reluctance to kill off his characters for the sake of his stories is quite endearing to me.Claras’ sacrifice to follow the Great Intelligence into the Doctors’ time stream looked like it was determined by her awareness of the existence of herselves as well as a desire to save the Doctor.I am wondering how she is going to be restored after River warned her about what she was going to do.

  6. I am happy I was quasi-right that Clara was a Jageroth! (and a Horcrux, too, as was pointed out).

    Great conversation as always.

    As far as who Hurt is, and what he did…I have a theory, based on the “Everyone lives” ethos of Moffat, just what the 50th anniversary is going to try and pull off. Not sure how I’d feel about it if they do “go there”, too.

  7. […] I’m so glad I didn’t give in to my temptation to turn it off right there as I mentioned on the podcast.Β  But I’ve already squeed about seeing the past Doctors with my beloved Clara, so I […]

  8. Love the podcast! I just found you guys and am going through all the old ones to catch up.

    I really thought that the whole name thing would harken back to Akhaten – that he had given up memory of his name to The Great Pumpkin (right after he starts with the “secrets that must never be spoken” bit, it looked to me like an info dump into the sun) and that he wouldn’t be able to speak it at Trenzalore because he no longer knew it… The fact that this did not happen just makes the Akhaten thing meaningless, which felt like a cheat.

    So I have to wonder why River opened the tomb? The Doctor seemed willing to sacrifice his friends to protect what was going on in there, but River wasn’t? That would make sense if she knew what was going to happen, but dude, harsh! Let your hubby writhe in agony on the floor, have whole star systems die out, end up with people being rewritten or written out of existence? Ouch. Although technically, ClaraPrime was saved by the Doctor the first day he met her, so she should have been written out, too…

    Well, I had great fear about this episode going horribly wrong and it didn’t, so yay! Some handwaving required, but nothing above my ability to manage for Doctor Who!

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