Six Smart Women Discussing Doctor Who

VerityEpisode93This week we discuss another Peter Harness nail biter or, depending on which Verity is on the mic, that meh episode with Osgood. (Maybe one of us has shapeshifted!) Join Deb, Kat, Lynne and Tansy as we parse refugee metaphor, fangirls leveling up and underpants. It’s that sort of episode. And we miss Erika, who is jaunting around the UK, just a little.

What did you think of The Zygon Invasion? Was it too heavy-handed or just a good invasion story? Have we had enough of The Hybrid talk? Is sometimes a cigar just a cigar? Let us know what you think in the comments!



Also covered:

Kat enjoyed seeing the Doctor Who/Welcome to Nightvale Crossover


>has jumped back on the Big Finish wagon with Counter-Measures

>is looking forward to sharing The Underwater Menace with her 6 y.o. Second Doctor Fangirl

Lynne is SUPER EXCITED to get a Photo/Autograph with Alex Kingston at Chicago TARDIS. And has already selected shoes Worthy Of River Song!


>loved the new 8th Doctor Comic written by George Mann and drawn by Emma Vieceli

>is looking forward to Long Island Who and interviewing Camille Codori, Noel Clarke and Katy Manning. And invites listeners to send in questions!


Bonus links:

Mary Robinette Kowal’s The Glamourist Histories – with bonus Doctor references
Star Trek: The Next Generation
The Television Movie
8th Doctor’s question mark underpants
BONUS: 11 Doctors in their underpants by Caycowa (Scroll down to the bottom of the commentary for the War Doctor and the 12 Doctor update. Note – the 12th Doctor uses a bit of NSFW language.)

Download or listen nowΒ (runtime 1:20:53)Β 

Comments on: "Ep 93 – The Zygon Invasion of the Zygons" (23)

  1. Honestly, I think this would have been better without all the preachy references to the refugee crisis in Europe, but maybe that’s just because I listen to too much NPR and have kind of overdosed on the topic lately. Love the references to the seventh doctor – I’m really liking the connections between new and classic Who. It makes me feel more invested in the show overall, since I haven’t seen much in the way of the classic episodes. Another great discussion ladies, thanks for sharing your time and love of the show with us.

  2. Neil Ottenstein said:

    I really liked the podcast and episode. I also didn’t spot Zygon Clara, but it was bothering me that she wasn’t mentioning more about the child when talking to the Doctor and UNIT when first meeting up in the episode. Looking forward to the resolution of the cliffhangers.

    Speaking of cliffhangers – there is a new Counter-Measures special due in July 2016 and the start of the new series in Dec 2016.

  3. In the defence of incompetent UNIT soldiers no professional soldier or law enforcement agent would be trained to shoot to wound as its both tactically and medically unsound.

    I enjoyed the episode even if it took me embarrassingly long to figure out Clara was a Zygon when most of my excitement for this episode was for a Secret Invasion style story where even the heroes your following could be shape shifters.

    The heavy politics I found interesting or in the case of the stealing benefits line heavy handed but amusing because of who it mocked.

  4. I’m sorry Kat didn’t like this one, but glad that the rest of you did. πŸ™‚

    I reckon this was probably the strongest episode of the strongest series of New Who so far. I really think they’ve succeeded in taking it to a new level this year, and I am now filled with trepidation in case it all falls apart over the next few weeks! If not, series 9 will be to New Who what Children of Earth was to Torchwood.

  5. Jim O'Brien said:

    I’m in Kat’s camp on this one. This entire episode fell flat for me. I’ll also add that the guitar schtick and the declarative “I’m the Doctor…” statements are getting old fast. But on a less superficial level, I feel the death-as-cliffhanger has been so beaten to death lately that it holds no weight.

    When every key character in the episode excluding the Doctor has “died” in recent memory (Kate Stewart and Osgood in “Death in Heaven” and Clara in “Magician’s Apprentice”) the idle threat of Clara and Kate’s potential demise just didn’t hold any weight for me.

    I was surprised by the lukewarm feeling I walked away from this episode with, as I loved Harness’s “Kill the Moon” and Capaldi is fast becoming my favorite Doctor from ANY era, both New Who and Classic! I’m hoping part two sucks me back in.

  6. Madelyn said:

    I loved Bonnie (and this whole political commentary laden episode!), but does Steven Moffat really think every female villain needs red lipstick and an up-do?

    Thanks for making such a wonderful podcast!!

  7. Lynn-THE SHOES!!!!!

  8. Marc Kugel said:

    I found your podcast after the others that I listened to became extinct or inactive. I’m really enjoying it and look forward to listening while I work on Wednesdays.

    This week’s episode gets my thumbs up (Sorry, Kat). I’m loving Capaldi and feel the stories this year have been more consistent than last year. I guessed the Clara thing when her immediate reaction to the Zygon pods was to order them destroyed. Too bloodthirsty for her.
    We should note that the nerve gas being stolen by someone with a TARDIS does not necessarily mean the Doctor, especially in the 70’s/80’s.

    The possibilities of a shape-changing companion occurred to me just a few minutes before Tansy mentioned it in the podcast – great minds think alike.

    Keep up the good work and I hope to see at least some of you at Chicago TARDIS this year.

  9. terminuspodcast said:

    Like Tansy, I was confused about Sandeep and his parents as well. Watching it, I thought it was two rebel Zygons kidnapping a Zygon leader, but the fact that it was instead two rebel Zygons with a human boy makes more plot sense. I guess it was just because it came soon after them kidnapping the Zygon leader-girls that I just assumed Sandeep was also a Zygon-in-a-childs-body (and possibly a leader, and thus enemy, of the rebel Zygons).

    Oh, and like Kat, I also didn’t really see all the political aspects of the story when I watched it and instead I was just thinking instead of 1950s ScFi classics like ‘Invasion of the Body Snatchers’ (which, admittedly, has political undertones too, but since I first saw it several times as a kid, it took until adulthood to even cotton onto that aspect of it). But then, also like Kat, I never watch the news because its too depressing.

    After seeing the episode, I did see some feedback online similar to what you guys were talking about with immigration and such and it made perfect sense, but on first viewing, in a very superficial sense, that didn’t even come into my thoughts. Then again, I was a bit sleepy when I watched it, so I think I’ll rewatch it when I’m more awake and with more of an eye toward that when I finish making my own podcast notes. Apparently, I’m a bad ex-English major. πŸ˜‰

    • django said:

      I disagree about the boy. I think he was a Zygon in disguise who was there as bait to capture Clara. before taking her place. The person they then saw being carried away in the sack was Clara herself.

  10. Dave S. said:

    I don’t really buy the Osgood arc, mainly because I fully expect the show will reveal if she is human or zygon by next episode’s end. But also, I don’t think the character is a good analogy for any kind of identity politics. She was an adult person before she ever had a zygon duplicate, so why did that become the single most important thing in her life, an inseparable part of her identity? We’ve seen plenty of humans who were duplicated and don’t feel this, and we know that plenty of zygons do this all the time – so their link was what, exactly? She just happens to be the most empathetic human ever? Or the most empathetic zygon ever? It’s too arbitrary to have any weight to it.

    After this episode the infamous moon egg seems more logical by comparison. I agree that the immigration plan was ludicrous and half-explained – did they really find 20 million volunteers to have alien clones, but still consider this a secret? If all the zygons on earth are naturalized, why do they keep stealing more identities, especially if the goal is to be themselves? They can’t all be of strategic importance like Clara, surely?

    • Dave S. said:

      Apologies, after more thought I realize my Osgood comments might have sounded callous. I don’t mean to discount people’s feelings about this, especially as a more general issue. I just doubt the show’s commitment to the “Osgood’s identity” question, and don’t find that particular example a compelling stand-in for actual conversations worth having.

    • Perhaps the element of choice (Zygon and human chose to maintain identical bodies, keep the psychic link over time) was a factor? Or for that matter, the length of time they have apparently maintained the link?

  11. Patting self mightily on back, since I generally miss major plot points on a first viewing, right before the door opened in New Mexico, when the UNIT soldiers were waiting, I said “here comes his mother” and oh by golly there she was. But, so, if I expected his mom, I thought he really ought to have been prepared. Also I expected someone to be a Zygon, and figured it was Clara pretty early. But, even though I had a very good laugh at the hilarious tumbleweeds on a second viewing (after listening to RSF & even going so far as to tweet my gratitude to Warren) – especially since Kate’s hair barely moved in the apparent windstorm- I did NOT thereafter twig to the fact that it was probably human remains… Yikes and blech. So I have you all to thank for that. Thanks a million for another super fun podcast, so many great insights, far beyond silly tumbleweeds. You’re the best! (Ps to Lynne, truly amazing shoes!! So Alex Kingston-worthy. Not to mention lovely podcaster-worthy πŸ™‚ )

  12. I welcome occasional social and political commentary in the show, but I was a bit confused in how we are meant to empathise with the Zygon situation, because unless my memory is faulty, aren’t they here because in Day of the Doctor they were trying to *conquer* the Earth? If so, I’m struggling to feel any concern for a conquering force…

  13. Just in case anyone needs to do some sewing to complete their Twelfth Doctor cosplay…

    whovian questions by mrsdrdavison on Spoonflower

  14. pfh64 said:

    I watched episodes of Classic Who as a kid, but not “faithfully”. I do though, still love all of the shout outs to Classic Who, whether or not, I get them all.

  15. Congrats to Deb on her interview assignments! I was at Chicago TARDIS when Noel contacted his agent to give the ok to using his image in Doctor Who Legacy. Can you ask him if he’s seen his Bad Ass Mickey image and what he thinks of it? (It’s my favorite TARDIS team member!)

  16. I have to say, I thought it was just a weird cut when Clara left Sandeep’s apartment, although I did realise she was a Zygon when she said she wanted to go back to pick up a few things without mentioning anything. Then I had to go back and watch again to see what she’d said to the Doctor before she became a Zygon (nothing, so the Zygons got everything).

    My daughter liked the lipstick on Clara. But she’s 4, and princesses and My Little Pony are the bomb right now, so I guess I’ll suck it up.

    I’ve been wondering if the hybrid theme is pointing back to Clara being a hybrid after jumping in and out of the Doctor’s timeline, what with her Doctor-like behaviour and set of companions. I also wondered about the Doctor’s half-human on his mother’s side line, though I agree that would be a bit silly now (and totally not unlike Moffet to drag it back out).

    I am a bit of an Osgood fangirl because I imagined her a science drone at UNIT, which I might have wanted to be when I was a wee girl (fantasy career. Real career goal: scientific advisor to Doctor Who, of course).

  17. Korina said:

    Usually I go along for the ride, but even I can see when I’m being clobbered over the head. The things we’re seeing this season: consequences (mostly for the Doctor), Clara’s absence, her ‘Doctorishness’, hybrids, and some other things that I can’t remember because Monday. I can see the pieces of the puzzle, I’m just not sure how they fit together. It sure looks like Clara may be going off to be her own Doctor, but it’s just as likely Moffatt will kill her off in some heroic, self-sacrificing, push-the-innocent-out-of-the-way, save-the-universe way. Time will tell, I guess.

    Also, you are all right about there being a lot of meat on this season’s bones. After it’s over, can we look forward to Verity! The Revisitations? πŸ˜‰

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