Six Smart Women Discussing Doctor Who

verityextra2017It’s a short, intimate Extra! today. Join Deb and Erika as we introduce our topic for 2017. We’ll be mirroring 2016’s theme of “firsts” by talking about “lasts” and endings. We’ll talk about the final appearances of companions, Doctors, behind-the-scenes folks, and possibly other items! But we don’t want a year of downers (let’s face it, many goodbyes are sad sad sad), so we’re balancing that with the theme of “love”. We’ll also talk about love in Doctor Who as well as things we love about it!

And of course, we’ll be talking about series 10 when that airs. Hooray for new episodes of our show!

What firsts and loves would you like to hear us yammer on about? Let us know in the comments!

Here’s to a happy 2017 for all of us!


Download or listen now (runtime 22:09)  

Comments on: "Extra! – 2017: Love and Lasts" (16)

  1. Reblogged this on Confessions of a Curator, Editor, Geek and commented:


  2. David Thiel said:

    If this is a year of loves, surely it’s time for Liz to express her love for “The Time Monster!”

    • Joel Aarons said:

      Yes, yes, yes! If there is a story everyone has that they love beyond the telling of it and want to share it with the Verities, then that would be ideal. Erika could finally devote a podcast to the Ribos Operation as well.

  3. The new topic sounds fantastic! I look forward to hearing what each Verity picks as the thing they love. One item for the “love” category is “Human Nature” by Paul Cornell. Both the novel & TV episodes are love stories, but they have significant differences that could lead to interesting discussion.

    • Sarah said:

      Oh dear, “Human Nature.” I was a fan who appreciated what the NAs were seeking to do (which makes my distaste for RTD’s revived DW probably strange in retrospect, except that I thought it was fine for books to do, but not necessarily something I wanted to see for on-screen DW). “Human Nature” was one of my favorite Seventh Doctor tales. Weirdly, it really hurt to see it done on-screen for a Doctor (Tenth) I didn’t like or care about — and what do we do with the dark-skinned female character (Martha) but make her a servant, of course. At least Benny didn’t have to do that in the novel, but then, she was white. Oh, and RTD snottily claimed that anything that was good about the episode was actually due to his own work, not Cornell’s book (but, all this time later, I can’t remember where I read that, only that I did).

      Oh, yes, a discussion of book vs episode would be… “interesting.”

  4. Francis said:

    I’m super excited for this new topic too, and especially that you’re starting with Martha’s departure story. It would be great to hear the Veritys’ thoughts on what I see as one of the real difficulties of the new series – that every companion departure (with Martha as the only exception) has been an absolutely irrevocable and heartrending splitting of the Doctor and his best friend…’s something I’ve thought about a bit, especially after Clara’s departure. Is there really no other way to tell the story of a companion leaving the TARDIS, now that we’re not doing the ‘oh, she fell in love with a character we just introduced so she’s leaving now’ approach of the classic series (although that actually downplays some of the very effective leaving stories of the classic series – for example Barbara and Ian, or Romana, or Nyssa)? What makes for an effective companion departure? And can the new series (again, with Martha as the exception – and an exception that is possibly bound up in how she was so often defined as the not-Rose in Series 3) do one that isn’t in some way a tragedy?

    It’d also be interesting to hear an episode about the two companions who never got to have an official ‘last story’ – Liz Shaw and Ace. Both have had departures given to them in various spinoff media – Ace has by my count three ‘last stories’ just within the New Adventures – but the absence of an official departure is kind of interesting for how it opens up the ground for everyone’s head canon to write in their ideal departure for two of the show’s (imo) best companions.

    Finally, I 100% agree with M.A. Solko above that I’d love to hear the pod discuss the Human Nature novel as a part of the year of Love. After having been put through the wretchedness of Timewyrm: Genesys and the slightly marmite-y Damaged Goods last year, it’d be great to hear your thoughts on absolutely one of the best books the New Adventures has to offer. It’s also – if you squint a bit – a ‘last’ as well, as it was written to be the concluding book in Paul Cornell’s quartet of New Adventures……although he ended up adding a coda with Happy Endings a year later. If there’s any appetite for more New Adventures in the year of lasts/loves after that, I’d suggest either Love & War (Ace’s first departure, and it has Love in the title!), or Set Piece (Ace’s second, mostly permanent, departure, and the first chance to have the pod discuss a Kate Orman novel).

  5. My thought is a more general version of what Francis suggests: “companion departures”, perhaps picking three or four to compare in a single episode. (In several cases this covers “love” too.)

    I’d be tempted to contrast Jo Grant, Sarah Jane, Leela, and Romana…

  6. Joel Aarons said:

    It’s a big ask I know, but I’m really hoping you can cover Big Finish’s last adventure for the Sixth Doctor. In 2016, very little time was given to poor ol’ number six on Verity. This would show everyone just how well the sixth doctor went out – at least according to the audios. It’s four stories, but worth it!

  7. Hi, long time listener, first time commentator. I like the idea of this theme a lot, as I believe that the best endings are those that act as a good summing up of what was great about that character/story/whatever. I know this one’s obvious, you’re almost certainly going to do it anyway, but it’s worth just mentioning, Survival would be one to cover, not least since it would be topical with Rona Munro returning to write for Doctor Who. Also, I suppose that since that it does include a bit of on-purpose subtext about Ace’s sexuality (Rona has mentioned this specifically), it could fit in with the theme of love too. Beyond that, a full retrospective of Season 26 might work too, as a complement to the Season 1 coverage, and because there’s a lot of interesting stuff in those stories (hell, it might be one of my favourite Seasons of the show ever). Also, being only four serials, that won’t dominate the schedule too much.

    The Dalek Invasion of Earth would work as a sort of “first last”, as it’s the first companion departure episode, and one that’s still to a degree the standard by which many others are judged (plus again, done for reasons of love). On that note, the other major departure story I’d suggest would be The Green Death, especially since Jo and Professor Jones’ relationship has plenty to discuss. Definitely The War Games should be din there as it’s a whole bunch of lasts in one (but oddly manages to be fairly upbeat as regeneration episodes go). Oh, and this doesn’t fit the theme, but may be nice to do as an Extra at some point, how about a look back at Matt Lucas’ first appearance in Doctor Who in Big Finish’s The One Doctor?

  8. Great suggestions on this thread; I was thinking of some of these specifically!

    Although they’re obvious “lasts,” I do think every Doctor’s finale is worth revisiting, as they were all (with the possible exceptions of The Tenth Planet and The War Games, and the definite exception of Survival) produced explicitly as their Doctor’s last adventure. The emphasis and build-up of the last two Doctors’ finales are particularly worthy of discussing: should each Doctor’s finale be BIG and grandiose, or quieter and underplayed?

    Companion’s leaving stories are a great avenue as well, though be more selective. Not only the great ones (The Green Death, The Hand of Fear, Doomsday, Hell Bent), but some of the weak ones as well (The Invasion of Time, Terminus, Dragonfire, etc.).

    As for love, the big, epic question is: What does love mean to the Doctor? Exploring that leads to all sorts of things: how does the Doctor express love? who has he loved? how does his love break down into platonic and romantic? how is RTD’s Doctors’ love different than Moffat’s? how do companions show love (to the doctor, each other, other characters)?

    Along those lines, how about a special look at some of the show’s great romantic (or most shippable) couples:
    Ian and Barbara
    Two and Jamie
    The Doctor and The Brigadier
    Three and Jo
    Jo and Cliff
    Four and Sarah
    Four and Romana
    Five and Tegan
    Eight and Grace
    Nine and Rose
    Ten and Rose
    Ten and Reinette
    Ten and Joan
    Jackie and Pete
    Eleven and Amy
    Amy and Rory
    Eleven and Clara
    Twelve and Clara

    And stories that prominently feature love (of different sorts):
    The Girl in the Fireplace
    The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang
    A Christmas Carol
    The Doctor’s Wife
    Night Terrors
    The Doctor, The Widow, and the Wardrobe
    The Angels Take Manhattan
    Dark Water/Death In Heaven

    Looking forward to the year, and to seeing some of you at Gally!

    • A small nitpick, dkompare – I don’t think Trial of a Time Lord is “produced explicitly as [its] Doctor’s last adventure” either. Otherwise I think these are interesting suggestions.

  9. Nice idea for this year’s themes. My suggestion would be an episode about the love the Doctor has for his eternal and greatest companion: the TARDIS.

  10. David from San Diego said:

    I’m looking forward to hearing your shows his year, and how your explore the topics. Since you threw out the challenge to your listeners to give you some suggestions, I thought I’d challenge you back.

    In the category of “love,” I’d love to hear you examine “Fear Her.” I know it’s not a popular episode, which is part of the reason I’m sending it your way.

    I don’t want you to defend why you should or shouldn’t love this episode. Rather, I’d like to hear you talk about love as it relates to the story. Yes, there’s the obvious 10 and Rose. But what about the love Chloe’s mom has for her. How she expresses that love. The love that the Isolus has lost and is looking to replace. Even the love that Kel has for his street!

    I’ll be curious to hear your discussion!

  11. […] Happy birthday, Katy Manning! (It’s tomorrow as this ep drops.) Join Deb, Lynne, and Tansy as they bid a fond farewell to Jo Grant in “The Green Death”! We haven’t done a proper goodbye episode since our year of love and lasts! […]

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