Six Smart Women Discussing Doctor Who

verityepisode129No, we’re not talking about the Black Guardian, it’s (just past) Valentine’s Day! Join Deb, Erika, Lynne, and Tansy as we celebrate the holiday-of-love by discussing the Doctor as a romantic figure. Not all of us are equally comfortable with that notion, but as always, that leads to a fascinating discussion.

What are your thoughts on the Doctor as a heart-throb? Let us know in the comments!

^E

Also covered:

Bonus links:
Erika’s Gally schedule
Kat’s Gally schedule

Download or listen now (runtime 1:13:07) 

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Comments on: "Episode 129 – The Doctor as a Valentine" (15)

  1. Reblogged this on Confessions of a Curator, Editor, Geek and commented:

    New Verity!

  2. I’d set Jamie and Victoria alongside Ian and Barbara in terms of companion romance. Or maybe I’m just shipping… 🙂

  3. James m said:

    if the doctor believed in romance and was told flowers should be sent to those he loved, then each of the verities would receive on the due date a bag of best flour for sure.

  4. Trevor S said:

    “A potato peeler?”
    “It’s sonic!”

  5. Just have to say I’ve always viewed the Doctor’s most romantic gesture has always been – leaving Gallifrey and everything he has done since.

  6. Sarah said:

    I can totally imagine the Doctor thinking that giving a sonic potato peeler would be a romantic gesture. That fits my version of DW much better than so much of modern DW making the Doctor be some great romantic figure, and making him a little too obviously hetero (but also confused, such as when the Eleventh Doctor would have a raunchy sense of humor, but then flail wildly when kissed). I prefer him ambiguous, if not asexual. However, I also rather liked the Third Doctor being sad and driving off into the sunset alone when Jo got engaged to a human. So, why do I not like all the kissing in modern DW? I’m probably just confused (and largely asexual/aromantic, myself, which has caused my sister to mock me as autistic).

  7. I’m largely on Team Erika regarding the thought of the Doctor as a romantic or sexual creature. I have a bit of head canon that helps me reconcile the romanticism of the contemporary Doctors, though. It’s a bit lengthy, so apologies.

    To me, the Doctor is a widower. I believe that Susan is his legitimate granddaughter, and I take his assertion that he was once a father at face value. It seems likely that the remainder of his family, save for Susan, died. This correlates with his statement in Tomb of the Cybermen that his family “sleeps in his mind,” which sounds quite like a phrase that a bereaved person would tend to use. His family’s death may even been part of his impetus for leaving Gallifrey, if he felt that there was no longer anything there for him on the planet. I imagine that he was in love with Susan’s grandmother, and deeply hurt by her loss.

    It’s not uncommon for widowed people to be uninterested in pursuing romantic relationships for some time after the loss of their loved one, if ever, oftentimes out of the feeling that they are being disloyal to the memory of the one they lost. I posit that this is the Doctor’s state of mind throughout the classic series. When we encounter the 9th Doctor, the combination of the passage of time and the events of the Time War may have finally brought him to a mental place where he is looking for a deeper relationship than he has allowed himself since leaving Gallifrey. It could be that the (apparent) demise of his entire race accentuates his feelings of loneliness to the point that he is in need of a real connection with another individual, and that loss supplants the now long-ago loss of his family, easing any potential feelings of disloyalty to a past beloved.

    Having said that, the relationship with River is the only one that I find I can countenance in my fannish heart, possibly because it’s been laid out there all along that she is the Doctor’s wife. I suppose my old school fan sensibilities are at least flexible to a point if the Doctor finds himself in a committed relationship with someone similarly long-lived, but the thought of dalliances with companions strikes me as promiscuous and icky on some level that I can’t really articulate.

    • KirstenHazel said:

      I meant to post earlier, but this was a fun episode. While I come to the show through New Who and am also a 10/Rose shipper I largely agree with Erika as well. As Drew stated so clearly above I also take the assertion that he was a grandfather and father at face value. I get the sense that he probably had a fairly typical life with a family on Gaillfrey until he and Susan left. That said we don’t know what that means, it doesn’t make sense to me to assume that it’s the same as humans.
      It was touched on in the podcast, although I wouldn’t liked a deeper discussion, that there is a difference between romance and sex. While I’m fine with and in general enjoy romance on the show I have a big issue when there’s references to the sexual side of life. Like I said before I’m a shipper, but I can’t see Rose & 10 doing anything beyond what we see on the screen. (It’s a different story with the Meta-Crisis Doctor, but he’s partially human). I do think he care for her deeply, yet at the same time, I think it’s not a physical attraction for him. As stated on the podcast he sees people often as they really are, not based on their outward appearance. That is one of the reasons, sorry Lynne, that I have such a problem with GITF. All the kissing and then implication of sex with Renette just makes me squirm uncomfortably; it seems to OOC with my understanding of the Doctor.

  8. Sharon Shannon said:

    Erika, love you to the moon but PLEASE don’t go off about hockey again, k super thanks. In fact I tune out when *any* of you digress from Who or geek-related topics, because you are the Verities and I need me more intelligent DW girl talk.

    • If you use an android phone, I highly recommend BeyondPod as a podcatcher. I use it and I love it! It lets you program the skip back & skip forward buttons to whatever amount of time you like. So you could set it for 20 or 30 seconds and just skip through, checking in briefly after each skip to see if I’m done talking about the thing that makes me genuinely and truly happy despite the complete crap and personal hardships I’ve been dealing with lately. Sharing that joy with my friends is another thing that provides a light in the deep darkness—I know my sheer joy brings them joy because they love me deeply. Right now I think both I and the world need as much happiness from as many places as we can find it. So I think that forward skip button idea is your best bet.

    • not-Sharon said:

      Oh, Sharon, no. Don’t tell anyone what she’s allowed to talk about on her own (joint) podcast. If you use a tablet, find a good podcast app like Podkicker, which can jump ahead 15 seconds. Instead of public censoring, you can privately jump ahead and know if what you don’t want to hear is still being talked about. It helps me navigate through stuff for which I have no patience (such as any news report in which I hear the current USA president open his mile-high-pile-of-garbage mouth).

  9. Sharon Shannon said:

    Thought of something else, since you were referencing romantic moments from past Doctors: the moment when Jo announces to Three that she’s not traveling with him anymore, but going off to marry her anthropologist. The look–first surprise, then regret, then sadness as he accepts her decision and leaves the party alone. Of course they weren’t a couple in any manner, but still, this scene was ponderously romantic to me. And he didn’t even have the TARDIS to comfort him…just Bessie.

  10. pfh64 said:

    Erika, if you are not aware of it, the website colorofhockey.com celebrates hockey diversity. One of the recent posts celebrated a trip to a Washington Capitals game by a member of UAE women’s national team.

  11. One of the best gifts my husband ever gave me was a potato masher. Sadly, it wasn’t sonic.

  12. Andrew said:

    Fun episode thanks! Just a side note on the brief mention of Lungbarrow, which is often misunderstood as denying that Time Lords ever have sex. (Apologies in advance if I’m overly fan-splaining.)

    It actually posits a Gallifrey which once had natural birth, but became sterile after the soon-to-be Sisterhood of Karn left (set up in Marc Platt’s book around the beginning of the New Adventures range) – thus the Looms as a replacement form of reproduction. It also confirms that Susan was born normally, although it treads a thin line by saying that she both is and isn’t the Doctor’s granddaughter, depending on which way you look at it.

    And then of course the 8th Doctor books came along, several of which openly portray the Doctor as a sexual being. (Not to mention the erotic novel written under a pseudonym by Rebecca Levene, editor of the 7th Doctor-then-Bernice Summerfield New Adventures, where the male character was intended to be the amnesiac Paul McGann Doctor.) Those were interesting times in fandom 🙂

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